seems we have to start paying down debt as opposed to staying neutral. is it enough to be neutral? that's the question. >> the president was talking about entitlement reform. he is talking about we can't be governed by the deficit because we have to invest in our future. >> sounds like you're not going to pay it down, then. >> he also said, you know, i want to figure out a way to do this and do tax reform at the same time. >> and so you will raise taxes to pay for what you're doing, is that what he is saying? >> you're going to get rid of loopholes, et cetera. >> help me with that. tell me, closing loopholes is always a great answer. does that make sense? can that be done? >> it makes sense and there are a number of proposals in the congress since speaker gingrich's days of proposals and not if it brings more money to washington. the president says duke that and it will bring more money. >> if you close the loophole and it will wind upbringing money in, where is it supposed to go. >> the reagan argument is close the loophole and lower the rates. the president wants the money. look,